EEN vs RN - please, need explanation.

Hi Mark,

Firstly congrats on getting accepted into the course. Well done!!

Ok in answer to your questions..(by the way EN's are now called RN's as well, here in Melb at least, and it's now RN Div 1 and RN Div 2)

1- How much will you earn a fortnight? That may be something you will have to research cos I am unsure about that. I am not qualified yet. I do know it is less than a div 1. You could probably get that info from your nurses union or the nurses board. Also something like wageline would have that info. But if you contact one of those places they will be able to give you a wage scale.

2-Do Div 2's get treated like div 1's. That is probably dependant on where you work and the individuals you work with. I can say though that in my exp on placement and also other nurses I have spoken to (div 1) they are generally treated the same. But that will vary from person to person.

3-Do EN's canulate and what sort of meds do they do? No they don't canulate. The course is all changing over here (most likely all across the board) and turning into a diploma course so all the meds will be included. Also current Div 2's can do a med endorsement course which means they can administer oxygen and all drugs. You can find out all the specifics though from your particulr uni/tafe.

4- Do EN's get to do dressings? Absolutely .

5- Can EN's work in psych and emerg? Yes most definitely. Div 2's can work in just about any area of nursing and are being hired in acute, ED, mental health, palliative etc etc.

6 - Can EN's perfom similar duties to RN's? Yes they can. The scope of practice is becoming much wider and the difference between Div 1 and Div 2 is becoming less and less. Div 1's will always be able to do that little bit extra but with everything they are introducing now for div 2's they are very similar.

Hope that helps.

Hey All

SA EN Point of View :P

1- Depends if ur working in public / private / aged care / community

2- Yes over here we dont have EEN's, we have EN's and END <-- the EN's who have the Diploma of Nursing

3- I do know of EN's who are trained to canulate, once again it depends on ur training if you have been accredited to do so, and also where you work. You work out bush or remote and the level of skills you are using are totally different in a way to what you would use here in the big smoke.

4- Once again depends on the facilities policy, work in aged care your giving all drugs, including S8 (DDA's) some hospitials you can give S4 drugs others you cant. I know of one hospitial here in Adelaide, that does not let Agency EN's give medication, but if your employed at the hospitial then EN's can give meds.

5- Yes EN's do dressings, and lots of them. You get good and quick at them FAST :P

6- EN's used to generally only be seen in Aged Care supporting the RN on a shift. Now a days EN's are taking over the world, so to speak. You find them in any area of health from A n E to med / surg, psyc, remote, health clinics, GP Rooms.

7- To a certain extent. There is plently of education courses out there for EN's to increase there skill level and training to enable them to have a bigger scoope of practice.

Hope this helps

Aaron

Hi Marka,

I sure you will make the right decision,just follow your heart cause it sounds like thats what you want to do. I too have taken that plunge to study to do my EEN, and start next month. I am 43 years old (Oh crap). Sometimes the old bod feels older than 43, tweaked my sciata nerve the other day(not at work) at home drying myself after having shower, something grabbed me in the butt and that was it, could not walk to well, couldnot bend down etc etc etc. Anyhows I think, best of luck to both of us and anybody else out there embarking on study.

RC

Hi Keeshy,

thnks for your support and good wishes, yep I guess age is irrelevant. With age you gain experience, maturity, and a much broader outlook on life and life issues. Your never too old to learn. life is a learning thing. We learn something new everyday. When I learn or hear about new things at work, I like to find out just a bit more about it, not just the basics the whole nitty gritty. It helps me understand. By the way what does IMO mean (der)

RC

The definition/role of an EN and an RN differ between hospitals and facilities too. I was a hospital trained EN (oh I feel ancient!) and where I work there is no differentiation between medication endorsed ENs, ENs who trained in uni and ENs who were like me. We all did the same work, and in my division we could not give meds, as per hospital policy. Those who did extra courses were/are not recognised for them :((( Any wonder I became an RN? (I hated handing in my EN enrolment in order to be registered - you can't keep both. *sniff*) Don't be disheartened most facilities are more enlightened than mine...

ENs here earn between 39500 - 44690 pa without penalties in the public health system; I believe it is less in the private health system. Thats without penalties of course. The starting wage is 44690 for a new grad RN - the same as for a level 5 EN. As an EN I felt we were treated the same. It depends on where you work. ENs can do venipuncture here, I think they can still do the cannulation course too. An EN has their own patients; they admit them, assess them, plan their care, carry out their care and discharge them, as an RN would, liasing with all allied health professionals.

Hi PrincessDemonik & Rotator Cuff,

I am glad to read all of your responses, you have answered all of my questions, I have resigned from my job and I was so scared in doing so...it was a daunting feeling/task to do given that I really loved my old job, But as days have passed on, i feel more confident and can't wait to start my new career and take on the challenges of studying and the rest, I am excited.

Thank you all once again for taking time in reading my posts and answering, you all seem so very supportive and knowledgeble. I will make sure to visit this website more frequently espicially during my study. I will try to complete as many certificates as I can to better my qualifications.

Today I have met an RN through a friend of mine and she expressed her views on ENs and I felt like it was a bit negative. I hope not all RNs are like that.

Anyhow, thank you all.

Mark.

Hey guys,

When you can talk to RN's about the movie"Brokeback Mountain" you know you are on a good thing........ that will be the end of that topic. Getting help with things and being appreciated for what you do is really a good confidence booster, cause I think it all comes down to CONFIDENCE, and good team work. And Marka, good luck with your new job and study. Visit this website as often as you like during study, cause I certainly will. We are all here to help and be supportive. After all isn't that what all us nurses do.

RC

Hey Mark, What your scope of practice is as an EEN (whatever the heck that is ;-) why can't we call everything the same thing) will largely depend on where you are working. I'm sure you'll find an EEN can do most things but will have to do extra training, whether these extra qualifications are recognised in your workplace may be up to hospital policy. I have been on placement in hospitals were Div 2 nurses (enrolled nurses) could not give any medications regardless of their qualifications - the hospital policy did not allow medication administration by Div 2 nurses full stop.

If you are worried remember this - nothing is stopping you converting to Div 1 further down the track. I'm not sure where you are based but here in Vic div 2's can do a 2-year conversion to div 1, this means that in total they still only study the same amount of time as the Bachelor of Nursing: one year at TAFE for the div 2 quals then 2 years at Uni for div 1 - the advantage of this is that they are registered as div 2s for the duration of their div 1 course so they can claim educational expenses as tax and work part time in the relevant field to the studies...

If the idea of going back to study is daunting then start with the EEN course, it's not a final decision and you'll get a good taste of what nursing is all about and what your options are.

I graduated from TAFE in Queensland as an EEN in November 2006, and have two jobs - one in a aged care home (where I worked as a student) and in a surgical ward in a hospital. I was talking to two of the EENs on my ward today about EENs and getting advanced practice, and how to get it. Any advice?

Also, to the original EEN vs RN question - in my nursing home EENs/RNs do the extact same jb - pills & dressings. In the surg ward - EENs are a new thing, and when the first one came in last year - all the RNs were scared, but now their are another five (including me) and the RNs (most of them) treat us like equals. We split up the work load - eg: if we get 9 pts together - I will take 5, the RN will take 4, and we will concerntrate on our own. The RN will do my IVABs, in turn I could go a BSL or a incont. pad change for them. EENs in QLD can give all meds (except IV meds) including S8s - as long as the pt has had the drug before the effect/reaction is known. I have had RNs who precepted me when I first arrived, now asking me for help & advice, which is refreshing.

The issue I have having now is that when we have EEN students in our ward, they are allocated with RNs only. The Clinical Nurse/ Team Leader would choose a brand new grad RN over an EEN who has been working for 30yrs to work with an EEN student. The student should be with the EEn becuase they can show them what an EEN does, as the student will be doing the same thing in a few months time.

I also tried to swap my afternoon shift with a grad RN's morning shift for tomorrow. The Team Leader this morning said that was fine, but the Team Leader in the afternoon said 'No', because of the "skillmix".

What does that mean? It means the staff in the morning are a mixture of staff with skills (The RNs) and staff who don't (the EENs) What can that grad RN do that I can't? If their is a Code Green/ Code Blue - some group of Drs. come anyways? That gives me the shits.

EENs are awesome, but their is a glass ceiling.

I am going to my RNs next year, and I know of EENs doing that, finding it hard to adjust to being a student again and wearing a different. My EEN friend said to the RN she was with in her prac as RN student - to give her all the pts and she will just call her when the meds are due for her to watch her. Any comments?

Thanks for reading

Hey claymond,

If your still around did you ever get a answer for that question because it seems that no one knows and from what i understand its only for RNs. I'm confused as i thought EENs can get advances to canulate and insert IDCs? What else have we got?