Is doing a nursing course worth it at this juncture

I am not sure about the situation in Victoria but I chance to guess its the same as the situation in Queensland and that there is a saturation of grads without sufficient positions to absorb them all. In short, there are lots of fresh grads without a job, especially mature age ones.

Some of the more recent grads here in Queensland have been offered Graduate Nurse Program positions on a part time basis and some are only 0.6 which translates to 6 days per fortnight. This dilution is because some of these hospitals is trying to maintain as higher a number of GNP positions instead of cutting back due to budget, existing saturation where they cannot find placement post GNP and skill mix ratio. Their rationale is that the GNP is 1 year and by then they hope that they would have trained sufficient nurses to substitute out going and retiring nurses. But some hospital are reducing GNP positions outright at Queensland Health directive or more like budgetary constrains.

I have to disagree with Long Haul that mature age grads are unwilling to or does not have industry experience, hence they are not selected for grad programs. I can tell you that I am mature age, come from an Age care background prior to my degree doing work as an AIN, then I concurrently worked as a research assistant into dementia and nursing. I had a speciality under my belt before I graduated - ECG reading and interpretation. And yet I did not get an interview for grad program. And I am NOT alone on this, I have a number of mature age grads from my hospital (public) in Qld who are struggling to find work as RNs. And...they are AINs or ENs. I think to infer on the grounds that mature age students are "disadvantaged" the grounds of their lack of willingness to work in the industry prior to graduating is inaccurate. For the same reason one would argue mature age grads already have family and thus less likely to go on maternity leave, are more stable, have life experience and etc,

Whilst working as an AIN has some benefits in terms of networking, I disagree with you again in that you will easily get a job, simply because of your experience and networking. I am on the floor of a major hospital and we have our ears to the ground and seen whom amongst our AINs have transited through to RNs...its NOT a pretty sight. I would like to know how you came to this conclusion that its as easy as you make it out to be? Even in Qld, locals are struggling to find work and you say the Q Health is giving away positions to interstate? I find it hard to believe.

You mentioned working as an AIN looking after a patient and doing suctioning and meds in another thread. Frankly I am quiet surprised because your employer is taking a big risk, I am not questioning your ability but the risk your employer is willing to take if anything goes wrong. There is an ongoing debate by state stake holders in the role of AINs. Whilst we all agree how important AINs are, currently they are not registered by a professional body and hence no insurable recourse if anything happens. For example, in suctioning, one can easily cause Atelectasis (collapsing of the alvoeli). Even in the dispensation of medications, there is a reason why nurses have to understand pharmacology and even then student RNs are not allowed to dispense meds alone here in Qld let alone an AIN. Its just surprising that's all, in your situation I mean. Anyways all the best for your studies

It's perfectly fine that you disagree with me. Your experiences are your own, where as my experiences are mine. And those are simply my experiences in regards to peers, fellow employees, friends and family who have gotten into the grad program- Those that worked in the industry during the degree, were the ones that got the positions. Those that did not work in the industry did not get the positions. What it comes down to, in the end, is the interview. Many mature age no longer have interview skills. Those younger do. The younger ones also have a lot of self worth and confidence (and I'm mature age, too) which comes off in the interview and makes the employees want to hire them. I have also gotten feedback from many heads of nursing departments at various universities who have suggested the same thing and have also spoken to family friends who are on the nursing board about it, with the same results.

I also never said that mature age weren't willing to work in the health industry during nursing. I said they already had jobs that they are stable in and so don't look elsewhere.

As for your concerns in regards to my qualifications- it does not take 3 years of school to learn to do a lot of nursing. What it takes is caring for your pt. I am not an AIN either. I am a support worker, which I am sure in your eyes makes it even worse. Dr's are recommending taking long term palliative care pt's home these days, as they acknowledge that they get better care from people like me, than they do nurses. When you compare a hospitalised coma pt, with a coma pt being taken care of at home, there is a huge difference in their overall health and appearance. There is nil pressure sores, ever. There is nil degrading/seizing of muscles. The skin is soft and still has a healthy glow- even after 5 years. I know my pt every square inch over. I know the perfect temp. I know the temp that starts seizures. I know how often to check it to makes sure we don't get to the seizure stage. I know exactly what to do when a temp is a certain amount, and how long it will get to where I want it. I know the sleeping heart rate, awake heart rate, in pain heart rate and awake but very bad heart rate. Same for O2 levels. I know from facial expressions and hand twitches when my pt needs quiet or wants stimulation such as the TV or a CD on. I know when he is irritated and I can tell what the irritance is from. Any slight changes can mean a big problem for my pt, so someone that knows the pt so well does better than a hospital that has many other pt's and can't give the care needed. I can also hold up on my own in regards to meds, when talking to pharma/doctors. I can tell what it is, what it's for, what's in it, side effects, what it can and can't be mixed with and I can also tell when it's going to be too big a dose or too small a dose.

This intimate knowledge and the care provided is why so many are now fighting the government to get their neglected loved ones out of hospital and into the care of support workers. They are losing their homes and super in the battle, but when the finally get their loved one home (usually disability housing commission as they lost their home in the fight) they see the immediate improvements and know it was for the best. That is why the Dept of disabilities and communities is so willing to take the risk in employing non-RN's to do these jobs- because when they compare hospitalised coma pt's to at home coma pt's it proves- we are better at it, pick up what is needed to know, we actually provide care to our pt's and develop an intimate knowledge in everything regarding the care/health of our pt. We use machines that only the ICU nurses use and baffle the other nurses and we know what to do in emergencies. Their families become our families and that also helps provide comfort not just for our pt, but also the families, as they know the type of person you are.

QuieLi,

One point to note is that a lot of hospitals (public and private) do not accept graduate nurses hitting the floor as RNs EXCEPT through the Graduate Nurse Program. In short if you cannot get into that hospital on a GNP, you cannot apply to come in any other way (assuming you're a fresh graduate without RN experience, EEN experience does not even count). I have some EENs about to graduate and getting their registration and they having loads of difficulties finding work as RNs. They are stuck, because they have 6 months to continue as EENs once they are registered as RNs as they have to surrender their EEN registration.

Ok, how to secure work. If you can try to find work in a public hospital (first choice) and then private hospital (second choice) as an AIN. Working as an AIN allows you to network in hospitals. However I encourage you to check out which hospitals will take in fresh graduates NOT on GNP route. In Queensland - The Prince Charles and Royal Brisbane Women's hospital are the two exceptions that I currently know off that does this. Well go through the normal GNP application process and with hopefully you will secure a position, if not then fall back on your network for a foot in. Generally if you are already working as an AIN in a hospital, you can get references from your NUM or CNs which will bolster your application. Also you can ask them to talk to HR to look out for your online GNP application and offer you an interview. All my USINs (undergraduate Student in Nursing) got their jobs offers with the help of our NUM.

Moving interstate would probably be your last choice as for all you know it maybe one who will not accept fresh grads hitting the floor as normal RNs.

Standing out during pracs and making it known to the NUM of your interest to join them when you graduate. backing up a bit, that means you will need to pick hospitals that accept fresh grads NOT in a GNP. Most students do not stand out and because they are NOT remarkable, they are not given a second look. Here are some tips which in my opinion makes an outstanding student nurse.

1) You have to be cheerful and engaging. In short its attitude. If you walk in being happy and engaging positively with patients (joking with them and empathising when appropriate), your mood and attitude will rub off on them and they WILL remember you..trust me when you tell the NUM that you want to work there, he/she will check with your buddy nurses and patients. Even if they don;t check with pt's, feedback from your buddy nurses about your positive influence on your patients is a big tick on your attitude. Believe me, attitude is a BIG point, skills and knowledge can be learned but NOT attitude....lol

2) Be a good self directed learner, this comes from critical thinking. For example, I can have final year students giving out meds with me for 2 weeks and in the third week I drop a bomb on them and they generally look like a deer caught out in the middle of the road with a car headlights bearing down on them. Example - most medications comes in the same class. Example - Warfarin, Heparin, Enoxaparin, Aspirin and etc. Students tends to just dish them out with the comforted knowledge that they are general anti coagulants BUT never ask why one patient gets warfarin and another Heparin. Going deeper into pharmacology will reveal a lot more and with that you can becomes a better nurse advocate. A lot of students think they know their meds but in fact they don't. I have stopped orders like Enoxaparin because doctors have mistakenly charted it absent mindedly, for a patient in chronic kidney failure. Subsequently, doctor charted for Heparin BD...which is NOT contraindicated for CKD but does the job for VTE prophylaxis.

3) Ask...even stupid and simple questions have an answer. I have a student who did well, she was doing obs for me and came up stating that a patient has irregular pulse but historical obs showed that he had regular pulse. Seems little but I congratulated her....she was dumbfounded and I got her to do an ECG. Pt turned out to have progressed to second degree heart block and I got doctors to change his meds (cancelled his beta blockers).

So as you can see, securing your position within the industry starts even before you graduate!!! LOL.

I have done a lot of checking into the GNP lotto as you call it. I have interviewed no less than 80 students and it seems that state governments are generally offering GNP to younger grads. SO why did I keep a tab on this issue, because I am a mature aged grad once upon a time....lol... and I did not even get an interview!! The online application does not give you much to present yourself, the rule is that they claim to provide an unbiased and a level playing field for each applicant, however you will have to disclose your age during application.

I think the mature age negative bias for job positions is probably due to the fact that younger grads have a longer "shelve" life...lol and maybe state government is of the mistaken assumption that mature age students with a tendency to be self sufficient for so long, maybe even with existing jobs can continue on with their current work and therefore not so "desperate" for nursing positions than younger grads. I am just guessing. I do know that if word gets out that younger grads could not find work that it might discourage future students from pursuing the degree.

Just an interesting note, I was placed in a different wing on my ward (one which I have not been on for weeks) and as a floater, my colleague referred a pt to me after she desaturated. I checked her meds and interestingly, doctors charted contraindicated medications and nurses have been dishing them out for weeks without picking it up. Worse, clinical nurses were amongst the guilty lot. Actually I don't blame them, it requires a good understanding of pharmacology, especially on beta blocker classes. Pt was charted salbutamol and ipratropium for COPD and sotalol for CCF. Sotalol is a non selectivebneta blocker with anti-arrhythmic properties. Because of it non selective properties it competes with salbutamol and ipratropium for the same androgenic receptor sites but with opposite effects. I informed the ward call and he was a bit cheesed of with our medical team...lol.

And all the while my nursing colleagues was wondering why the pt de-saturates and continues to have difficulty breathing. So its common to make mistakes and I have done my fair share, please don't let this discourage you or shake you. Just have fun and you'll be right

QuieLi,

Not at all, nurses don;'t get penalized for making mistakes because we are all human. Unless it is gross neglect, it common to make mistakes...see I made a mistake in my post too...I meant to say that Sotalol is contraindicated (not to be used) with Salbutamol only but I included Ipratropium which is not....lol.

I think what I was trying to get at is that doctors and nurse are human and we all make mistakes. However I was recently queried by a patient's husband who was visiting, asking why I bothered to be so good in my pharmacology and knowledge. Now mind you that guy's a nurse too and one with years of experience. II thought about what he said and all I could think off is that I only want the best for my patients, the same I would expect of another nurse looking after my parents.

I like your outlook and I believe you will be a great nurse. So here's to wishing you all the best in your studies and have fun in your clinical pracs. I am sure you'll love them.