Nursing issues


Register Forgot your password?

A tricky question. Can you legally document in a chart if you are not on duty?

You need to be logged in to get access to the forums. You can do so here

Author A tricky question. Can you legally document in a chart if you are not on duty?

rosyjo11

(offline)

  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Location:
  • Posts: 5

Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm

Ok, morals and ethics aside please. And also avoiding all the 'what you could do is,......' here is the scenario.

You are employed by the hospital and on the ward but not on duty, can you document critical information in a patient's chart? (as an RN)

And would it matter if that patient had not been under your care previously?

I cannot find the legal requirements about this so have just no idea other than going on scope of practice stuff and what an RN is qualified to do. I really need to know what an RN is 'allowed ' to do in this circumstance.

thanks in advance,
rosyjo11

Liz

(offline)

  • Joined: Sep 2007
  • Location: Brisbane
  • Posts: 79

Dec 24, 2008, 07:04 pm

I dont know what the rules are but i dont think you are allowed to document stuff while you are not on duty...why would you need to do so anyway if your not there. If you forget to write something during the shift and its the end, you just put an addit in. Um id say you'd have to do an incident report and stuff

The reason why you document is not only so others know whats going on, but if there is a problem with the patient, and say it goes to the coroners court, that is a legal document. Every thing you do has to be written down to cover your arse.

Senior RN

(offline)

  • Joined: Dec 2008
  • Location:
  • Posts: 24

Dec 25, 2008, 08:49 am

In my 17 years as an RN, I have been ' on the ward ' and not on duty, for various reasons, and, yes, I've entered detail into notes. Here's my rationale.....

Firstly, in NSW, an RN is a registered nurse 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You're joking I hear? Think of this.... Does your Nursing Registration Cert. state you are only registered between ' business hours ', or for ' night shifts ' only, or even ' whilst on a hospital ward ' ??? No, of course not.

How many times have you stayed back after a shift, either due to excessive workload demand, or your own miscalculation of time management? You have a job to do, in most cases. If you stay back to do your job, then that's good in the eyes of both management and your peers. If you leave early, then you're looking for trouble.

So, it's not extraordinary to be on the ward, after your shift has finished. You think of that extra detail to be documented. Do you leave it, or do it before you go home? If you leave it until next shift, there may be a problem.

( Eg. the INR came back as 12.6 after taking the phone call from pathology services. You were walking out the door, when you suddenly remembered, you didn't hand it over, or document in the patient's notes. If you don't do something, the patient will get another dose of Warfarin, and as a direct result of that particular dose, may suffer a serious CVA. )

So, you're now off duty, but you have something important to record / hand over. What are you going to do ???

I spent several years working in ' mental health '. If I was passing by the Unit, and noticed something noteworthy about a patient, or ex patient, or a safety issue, I would make the effort to either ring the Unit staff on duty, or even go in, and state what I saw, or find the patient's file, and write in the event observed.

Eg. Ex patient observed to be ' drug dealing ' to current patients; current patient in hospital PJs, drinking from bottle of whiskey across the road from Unit ( absconded / inappropriate for Day Leave ??), or two known current patients having sexual contact in public, outside of Unit.

In summary, your actions may make all the difference. How would you feel, if you later found out, that something serious occurred, as a direct result of the information you had, but didn't record / pass it on.....

regards,

rosyjo11

(offline)

  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Location:
  • Posts: 5

Dec 27, 2008, 09:31 pm

HI, thanks for the replies :)

Bit of an update. I was thinking only from a documentation point of view, not a privacy act point of view. So................. not on duty, not your patient, it is a violation of the privacy act to be opening their chart.

I wasnt even thinking from that angle.

Jo

Senior RN

(offline)

  • Joined: Dec 2008
  • Location:
  • Posts: 24

Dec 30, 2008, 08:55 pm Last edited Dec 30, 2008, 08:55 pm update #1

Jo,

I often hear people say, but that's against privacy rules....

Is it really? What Act / legislation / Section is being breached?

Think of another concept....

Duty of Care.

Ever been a witness in Court? Ever had a defense barrister grill you about why you did, or did not do something?

Let me say, if you work on that ward, as a member of staff, then you have the right to be on the premises. If you see something, that has a consequence, and you do nothing, regardless if you are 'on duty' or not.... then you will be held accountable for your actions.

If you want to argue 'privacy' issues in Court, when the patient died as a result of some error, then good luck.

Let me tell you about a little story....

Psych unit. Suicidal patient admitted. Nurse receives 'suicide note' from relative, written by patient in his own hand writing. Nurse dismisses importance of note, but does file it with other papers found in patient's belongings. Nurse goes off shift. Thinks about the day's events. Thinks, maybe I should have told the doctor / in charge of shift, about the suicide letter. Nurse 'sleeps' on it. Next day, before nurse is back on duty, patient is missing from room. 1030hrs. phone call from Police. Patient found dead, under bridge. Jumped from top of bridge. Suicide letter, said, " I think I will finish it all, by jumping off the XYZ Bridge one day...".

Case goes to Court. Nurse called as witness. Barrister for 'the family' reduces nurse to tears. Why? Because nurse was deemed to have had vital information, and did not pass it on. Nurse went off duty.... valid excuse? NO! Nurse had Duty of Care to patient, even after going off duty. Reason.... she could of telephoned, or come back to the unit to identify the letter.

In suming up the case, the Judge was highly critical of the nurse. Though not a 'criminal' offense, the patient's death was deemed to have been preventable. The Area Health Service paid a settlement to the family.

Something to think about.....

regards,

GORDO

modified: Tuesday 30 December 2008 8:57:41 pm - Senior RN

rosyjo11

(offline)

  • Joined: Jan 2008
  • Location:
  • Posts: 5

Jan 01, 2009, 05:57 pm

Is it a still a breach if the patient is a close relative and ASKS you to look in their chart?

ANd if so, who's confidentiality are you breaching? Not the patient's if they give you authority. And being the patient's chart are you then breaching the staff's confidentiality?

Considering if you are given the pt, hospital's and treating doctor's permission you can be given a photocopy of the chart then it seems the obstacle is the hospital and doctor, not the patient. Which brings it back to what in the chart is confidential? Who's privacy are we protecting?

Common sense says that if a patient asks you to read their chart then you are not invading their privacy at all.

Common sense doesnt seem to enter the equation at all unfortunately. It should. But you can argue till you're blue in the face, with hospital policy. It's the answer to all arguements isnt it? Hospital Policy.

My hospital was more concerned with my breach of confidentiality (even though the patient themselves asked me to do it) and not at all concerned with the repeated false documentation in there. And the false documentation IS a criminal offence. Go figure.............

Jo

You need to be logged in to get access to the forums. You can do so here